Question Of The Day: Let’s Play Pretend On Roy Halladay

Posted on July 7th, 2009 3:41pm by Evan Grant
Filed under Baseball, Talkin' baseball, Texas Rangers

DISCLAIMER: There is more chance of me signing a movie deal while here in Southern California than there is of the Rangers getting involved in the Roy Halladay mania that is about to sweep trade and message boards. A team that is up for sale with buyers yet to submit bids can in no way commit to taking on more than $20 million in remaining salary for the next two seasons. So, it’s a pipe dream. But J.P. Ricciardi is now saying he’s got to listen to offers for Halladay and Fox’s Ken Rosenthal has already run down a potential list of suitors that does mention the Rangers (although he shoots them down as quickly as he mentions them). And I should point out that Richard Durrett at the DMN has already thrown out this question.

It didn’t stop dear reader Zack, who admits it won’t happen either, from sending along his proposed deal:

To Toronto:
Neftali Feliz, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Marcus Lemon, and Wilmer Font

To Texas:
Halladay and Rod Barajas

Would make for interesting discussion on your site.

He is definitely right about that last part. So, what is your proposed fantasy trade since this is the only place that the trade is going to happen. I’m withholding my opinion until I see all of your deals.

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26 Comments to “Question Of The Day: Let’s Play Pretend On Roy Halladay”
  • salman @ July 7th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    I’m not sure a package like that would make it work. Salty hasn’t shown anything at the plate (even though his defense is better), Neftali just moved to the pen (even though it’s probably not permanent) and Lemon/Font is too far away/not good enough

    I would say we’d be starting at Neftali + Beaven + Salty

  • Josh @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    You know as much as I would like to have Halladay, I think if you have to give up guys like Feliz and Font who have the potential to be really special, you pass. I would rather seem them fail here, then flourish elsewhere. Call me selfish, I just don’t think the team is in a place where trading for a Halladay makes them that much better, especially if it costs them two guys who could have nice roles for years to come.

  • Jack Daddy @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    Davis, Kiker, Vallejo and Teagarden.

    But:

    1. for the reason you said, a trade for Halladay never happens. If we traded them Smoak, Holland and Feliz, the Jays might pick up the remaining $$ on Doc’s K, but Jack Daddy would never watch another Rangers game (and Halladay is my favorite pitcher in baseball).

    2. I don’t think they would do this. If we didn’t have Perez, Feliz, Holland, and Smoak, then my package might work. The problem is people are goind to want our best. If Beavan was our best pitching prospect, teams might be lining up for him. But he’s not so teams will start with Feliz and Holland and not move from there. Why would we do that?

    I think the best chance the Rangers have for a trade is AFTER new ownership steps in next year and we trade a rejuevenated Michael Main (or Feliz) and inlcude the power bat/arm of Nelson Cruz (filling the spot with a Mooreland/Smith).

    Sooooo, next year I could see a Feliz/Main, Teagarden, Cruz and Font trade for an ace to be (say, a then healthy Brandon Webb).

  • Russ @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    I would not be happy at all, trading, Feliz/Main, TT, Cruz, and Font for a Webb.

  • Jack Daddy @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    @russ – me neither. I don’t like prospect for veteran trades. Webb was just a guy that I knew was coming up after 2010.

    But what about Felix Hernandez, who would be 25 when he is a FA after 2011?

    Would you trade that package for him next July, AND include 1 more young pitcher (say Beavan) AND step up to a 10 yr, 250MM K?

    Again, not me. I’m not a believer that you win with guys that have hit the proverbial “lottery”. I think you win with a mix talented guys that are pre-arbs (1-3 years), a handful of guys that you lock up through arb and into the first 2 years of FA (Young/Kinsler) and a mix of gritty 5-6 year players (byrd) and salty veterans that don’t cost much (paul oneill, abreu, vizquel).

    I have no interest in building a team the way the Yanks have done and don’t think it will result in post-season success. How much better has Johan made the Mets? The dude is going to be 30 mid-way through this monster deal.

  • Bobby V @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    I am one that think Feliz turns into nothing more than a stud closer so if I could flip him in a package for a true #1 starter that we get not only for this year but also for next year I would do it in a heartbeat. I like the idea of getting Barajas in the deal too. If we are going to win this year or next we need more veteran hitters to go with the youngsters we have/will have.

    I like the proposed deal but think we may have to add another player in it.

    Salty, Feliz, Moreland, Lemon, and Font for Halladay and Barajas.

  • Jack Daddy @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    @russ, all of that being said, we will be forced at some point to trade somebody IF all these guys develop. We have more prospects than spots available. Again, the won’t all develop, but you arguable will have Beavan, Kiker, Povoda and Hunter knocking on the door by next August. Plus Holland, Harrison, Feldman, McCarthy and Hurley. Millwood will still be here next year. Some of these guys will get hurt, some will move to pen. But they will need to move SOMEBODY at some point.

    I would just prefer a more subtle trade (a pitcher for a hitter like Volquez for Hammy) than the monster 5 prospects for the FA to be.

  • Jack Daddy @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:37 pm

    @bobby V – a part of me hears you on Feliz (though if you see the guy pitch in person, he is very tantalizing and if he develops a change, he becomes devestating) and is why I would move Feliz BEFORE Holland, Perez and perhaps even Beavan. Definitely before Smoak, who given the offensive struggles of this team and the way the roster seems to built (high strikeout, all or nothing low OBP guys), is untouchable in my book (along with Perez and Holland).

    Said differently, there are 4 guys that I would absolutely view as untouchable in this organization:

    1. Holland,
    2. Smoak,
    3. Perez (kind of silly since I havent’ seen him play, but i’m convinced on everything I’ve read), adn
    4. Elvis.

  • Doug Fu @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    This reminds me of the last time there was talk of getting a Cy Young caliber pitcher from Toronto and the holdup on the deal was not wanting to include Ruben Mateo.

  • Doug Fu @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    To me, this type of situation is one of the reasons why you have a stocked up farm system.

    I do agree there are guys that are untouchable, but I would still try and put together a package to try and make it happen.

    Plus, if you do make a trade like this, you just have to put faith in your scouting and drafting that got you the stocked farm system in the first place to plug those holes with more talented people.

    That being said, I know there is no way in hell this would work because of the financial state of limbo the team is in.

  • Rangers Fan @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    I don’t want to trade any top prospects for a pitcher that will only be here for another year. And the Jays would require Smoak in any sort of deal, in my opinion. I’d be a lot more likely to go for a deal involving Matt Cain than Halladay.

  • Eric (Auburn) @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    In my opinion, you do not trade any young pieces to get anyone this season. Nothing will help this team do anything, but maybe make the playoffs. This, in my opinion, is not the year for the Rangers. Keep building up your farm system and developing young pitchers, because at some point one of them could end up being a “true ace”. Halladay is about 2 years away from not being the same pitcher anymore. He has thrown A TON of innings, and has been the workhorse of a staff for 3 or 4 years. Unless you absolutely certain that this team makes a playoff run this year, then you are wasting the talent that we have procured over the past 3 years.

  • Eric (Auburn) @ July 7th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    @Doug Fu
    While I agree this is one of the reasons you have a stacked farm system it is the second best reason to do so. The most important reason being to develop young talent, and make playoff runs with guys that you have brought along. The Rays are the example that the Rangers should follow, you breed your own guys through a farm system, and pick up a few key guys here and there (nothing more than a few vets to help the younger guys along). The Rays had to give up some guys (Delmon Young for example), but they got a young kid by the name of Matt Garza in return, not a 31 year old that may only have 1 or 2 “ace” years left in the tank.

  • Greg @ July 7th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    I’d bet the Jays would start by asking for Feliz or Holland, Smoak and one of Kiker/Beaven/Main. And that probably doesn’t even get it done.

  • Jack Daddy @ July 7th, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    The biggest issue with trading for an arm is there is little chance the Rangers re-sign the pitcher. Do we want a $15MM/yr pitcher anyway? That’s a lot to give up for 2 month rental (or a year and 2 month rental). When is the last time one of those trades resulted in a WS? There was something recently about the correlation between the best record and the WS champions. Its not very high. Anything goes in the playoffs.

    The example of the Rays trade was a great one and is similar to the Josh/Volquez trade I referred to. Those are the kind of trades we should be making, not the go for it trade.

    Pitching is worth more than hitting. By developing these guys, we should be able to identfy the Justin Smoaks on other teams rosters and go after them, using our “extra” pitchers as ammo. I’m all for that kind of trade.

    Would FL move Stanton for Kiker or Beavan? That is the kind of move I would look to. Or Josh Vitters. Getting a higher ceiling/rated hitter for one of our 2nd tier ppitchers. Not trading 2 or 3 of our pitchers for somebody else’s exiring contract.

    A good example of why I don’t want to do that? Tommy Hunter. I can only imagine the kind of pitcher we would have moved him for 2 weeks ago (think Adam Eaton), only to get performance that is no better than what Hunter just gave you.

  • Part Time Ranger Fan @ July 7th, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    Doug Fu, you hit the nail on the head. Sometimes we get so enamored with the possibilities and potential of prospects that we lose sight of the fact that there is a vast difference between having potential, and having proven big-time success.

    Now, you don’t want to give up the entire farm, but you can’t overstate the importance of having had real success at the MLB level.

    The two big questions that you would need to know before you gave away ANYTHING would be:

    1) How many more very successful seasons does he have left? At 32 does he have 4 good years left? Maybe 5? Don’t forget we’re supposedly in the “post-steroids” era. Could he really pitch successfully into his late 30′s? (Clemens needed help to have success that late in his career) How much talent do you want to give up for 4 or 5 yrs? Five years is great, but it’s not like getting the guy at 27 when you have 10 yrs left.

    2) Can you get him locked up for those 5 yrs? If you are only getting him for one or two years you obviously have to give up far less. As some mentioned last night, you don’t want to be in a “rent-a-player” mode right now.

  • Jack Daddy @ July 7th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    to my last point – Doug Davis is the kind of guy I was referring to (like an Adam Eaton). Do we really want to trade a kasey kiker or wilfredo boscan or Wilmer Font for a Doug Davis? Is Davis going to give THAT much more than a Tommy Hunter or a Dustin Nippert or a Derek Holland? Let’s not over-rate other people’s back of the rotation starters.

  • obagain @ July 7th, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    If I am the jays I ask for holland, smoak, perez and moscoso.
    I dont budge off that and if i dont get it I dont trade him.

  • utb @ July 7th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    Millwood and Feldman both have BABIP that will not hold up…meaning that Texas’ two best starters will see their ERAs climb as the season progresses and ground balls start finding holes instead of gloves.

    When Millwood regresses and Feldman returns to #4/#5 status, this team isn’t going to be one ace away from seriously contending. It’s simply not the time to make a move for “now.”

  • texaslifter @ July 7th, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    I would trade for Greinke or Cain.

    The better question set is: Who are the Rangers surplus players (going into 2010) and for whom do they trade them?

  • Nicholi @ July 7th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    I think it would take something like: Holland, Arias, Kiker, and a catcher.
    I wouldn’t do it for him. I’d like to trade for a Josh Johnson, Grieke, Cain, Nolasco.
    The Jays may even push a demand for Elvis. I see them wanting a hot shot shortstop in return.

  • texaslifter @ July 7th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    Since this July seems to be a great opportunity for sellers, let’s entertain offers for Frank Francisco, who, like Halladay, has 1 year and 2 months remaining on his contract.

  • declan macmanus @ July 7th, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    I’d rather have Adam Dunn or some other high-OBP power guy.

    Cheaper and perhaps a bigger need.

  • TD @ July 7th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    Glad this is only a fantasy trade….

    I am usually a “TRADE EM’ cause you don’t know what in the HELL they really will be” kind of guy but it seems that for the sake of the franchise finally having some kind of direction, this would really hurt the stability of the franchise….. Halladay is a beast and of course he would look great here but he is not going to stop IAN from popping up every at bat and he is not going to stop Andrew Jones from being Andrew Jones, etc. so it wouldn’t make sense this year, in my opinion.

    But I also agree with most commenters that the original deal offered would not land Halladay.

  • john in clearwater @ July 7th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    For this trade to even begin to make any sense at all to Texas, the Rangers would force them to take some salary back.

    Padilla

    Then pick two out of three – Holland, Feliz, Smoak

    That wouldn’t be a “give up” trade by Toronto and at the same time save them some money. That still might not be enough for Toronto and at the same time far too much for Texas to pay. But it would sure stir the pot in Rangerland, good and bad (especially when Halladay packed his bags to leave in 2010).

    If the Rangers lose Padilla, then don’t resign Blalock or Byrd, I’m not sure their total payroll would change too much in 2010.

  • Tsing Sao @ July 7th, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    Holland, Saltalamacchia, Beavan and Smoaks for Halladay. JP Riccardi knows he’s got the better hand and he’ll ask for a package similar to the Teixeira’s trade. They will not eat salary taking Blalock or Padilla, simply because they don’t have to.

    Big deal, but I’m afraid this will not go forward… pure fiction.

    A more realistic trade scenario (drum roll) Padre’s Kevin Correia, D’backs ex Ranger Davis or aaron Harang from the Reds.