D

…um, hello?

@Hightower: I’m thinking about trip to Katz’s, one of the few I’ve never been to. Just not sure what my scheduling is going to be like. We were delayed leaving Tampa by about an hour and are heading to JFK (there are no direct AA flights to LaGuardia) and then we may be fighting traffic into the city. So, we’ll see where we stand when we get there.

Hey Evan! Hope the flight is treating you well.

1. Rose should never be allowed in. Period. He knew the rule and even lied about it after the fact for YEARS!

2. Don’t like stats very much. Steal as much as you can. Waiting to get batted into scoring position is like a slow death. Always make them sweat.

Pete Rose should never get into the Hall. The steal is one of the great tools in baseball. It can do so many things to the mind of the other team and they are fun to watch.

Joe Morgan and “good job” are terms you don’t see together all that often.

1. John Dowd said the same thing about the deterrent this morning on ESPN radio. Dowd said Lenny Dykstra said that if it wasn’t for the Rose ban, Dykstra would never have quit gambling or tried to get help. It was fascinating to listen to Dowd.

2. If we’re going to cite anecdotal evidence, then one must acknowledge the other side of the coin, and we need go no farther back than Friday night in Tampa. Borbon gets thrown out stealing with Hamilton at the plate as the tying run. Rally killed.

Determining the risk/reward of trying to steal a base is a lot more sophisticated than either anecdotes or a simple calculation of how many runs score or don’t score in a computer simulation. I personally don’t know what the breakover is (I hear it’s more like 70%, but regardless), but there MUST be one. If every runner who tries to steal gets thrown out, it hurts run scoring. If every runner is successful, it helps. So there must be a “tipping point” somewhere, and if you’re smart, like some of the people who run ballclubs (notice, I said some), you know that number.

Since 1919 everyone knew that if they were involved with a major league team and were caught betting on a game the punishment was quick, severe, and lasting. Rose knew it..he did it…he got caught. He and his supporters should stop whining.

The ability to steal bases is a powerful weapon in a baseball game. If successful, it significantly increases your chances of scoring. Just the legtimate threat causes the other team to make adjustments from their preferred alignment and puts more pressure on the opposing pitcher. Anything that lessens a pitcher’s concentration on the hitter is good for the offense.

If doing more harm than good with a 70%-75% success rate stealing then what is someone who fails between 70% and 75% of the time hitting a baseball trying to advance the runner?

Stealing is based on the current events at hand. It’s sounds like it’s being made out that if a person gets on base then they’ll try to steal the base right then and there. If a person can run then give them the green light. Don’t send a player like Ortiz!

@Maddox: More power to you!

I guess I’m dorky enough Dan, cuz that’s geeky-cool!

1-Katz’s “juicy” pastrami is the best in the world and will spoil you for any other. Make sure you order it “juicy”.
2-Why see a movie in NYC with so much to do? Save the movie for the Twin Cities.

When the Yankees had Willie Randolph and Mickey Rivers, they created absolute havoc. The same is true for many teams in that era, and for Tampa Bay, now. A really outstanding running game creates a whole nother dimension. The Rangers have that potential with Borbon and Andrus.

In my view, a pennant contending team has to be unstoppable in some area — you can’t just be pretty good at everything. There has to something truly exceptional, and, if you have the right personnel, the running game may be it.

I think Navarro should keep stealing bases.

1)The movie: saw it last night, totally loved it. As long as you have a taste for extreme cinematic violence when used against the right parties, I think you’ll have a blast. And even when nobody’s geting shot, the dialogue and general tension are wonderful.
2)Pete Rose: I honestly wouldn’t care if they let him into Cooperstown (am I crazy for caring more about who’s in the Rangers Hall of Fame than MLB’s?), the issue for me is that he never be allowed to hold any job in baseball again. That’s not just the deterrent, but also common sense.
3)Basestealing is a tremendous weapon, and I’m all for it. Of course, if some guy’s getting thrown out 40% of the time, he’s no basestealer, just some guy who runs. But I’m suspicious of putting too much weight into statistical analysis of the effect it has because a lot of that effect is on the defense (creating hits by getting fielders out of position) and the psychology of the pitcher (making less than his best pitch because there’s a runner on). And while we can argue with my belief that there’s no stat that adequately measures defense, I don’t think even James himself would argue that there’s a stat to measure the pitcher’s head.

Peter Rose should never be allowed to join the ranks of my heroes. Besides, his name sounds “pornish”.
I never pitched professionally but I can tell you without reservation that activity on the basepaths is a tremendous “skull-screwing” for a pitcher: The throws to 1st; the slide step throws off my rhythm and I tend to hang my slider or throw it in the dirt; My SS and/or 2nd baseman are cheating too far toward the bag; my catcher sucks. Because of all of these things I must strike out the batter…etc..
You get the point.

@evan if you don’t mind dining with gangsters “peter luger Steak House” in Brooklyn just over the bridge is the rad……..it’s cash or their own issued credit card…….

Well, here goes an oppositional voice: I think Rose should be voted into the HoF. First, the HoF is not a part of MLB, nor is it controlled or run by, Major League Baseball. I quote from the wikipedia entry on the NATIONAL BASEBALL HALL OF FAME (note: it is NOT called the MLB Hall of Fame):

“…operated by private interests serving as the central point for the study of the history of baseball in the United States and beyond, the display of baseball-related artifacts and exhibits, and the honoring of persons who have excelled in playing, managing, and serving the sport.”

This establishes that the NBHoF is not necessarily a collection of individuals of the utmost moral character. If it were, there would be many more banned historically! The NBHoF is entirely and completely about performance within the sport, and on that count, Rose easily qualifies.

However, there is the issue of the NBHoF having a rule against allowing anyone entry that is on MLB’s permanent ban list. So, strictly speaking, Rose cannot now be allowed in. The question is thus whether the NBhOF ought to revoke that rule, and I suggest that they should.

That exclusion from the HoF acts as a deterrent to future nefarious activity is highly speculative and based more on faulty “common sense” thinking than on established fact. I would suggest that a FAR more persuasive deterrent is (as noted by Lamar in PA above) the permanent prohibition of ever working in/playing in MLB.

To take a more recent example, consider Barry Bonds. Was consideration of his future HoF status enough to deter him from using PEDs (assuming he actually did use them)? Apparently not in the face of improved performance and resulting lucrative contracts.

Let me be clear: I do not approve of what Rose did in betting on games (some against his own team, as he later admitted). Such action is despicable and should be clear grounds for a permanent suspension from MLB. However, based on his on-field accomplishments, Rose should be inducted into the NBHoF.

As for stealing bases, I agree with Evan who provides a very good set of examples of the unquantifiable (or very difficult to quantify) aspects of baseball. Stats are great, but they can never capture the totality of complex social interaction, of which baseball or any sport is an example.

Anytime Joe Morgan agrees with you, you probably need to reconsider your position. This is not an exception to that.

Carnegie Deli…. or don’t come home

As I recall from Moneyball the A’s focus was on avoiding outs as opposed to making runs. Stealing was viewed as increasing outs, killing innings and therefore to be avoided.

I agree that if all you can achieve is a 50% – 60% rate of success stealing is a losing proposition.

However, I strongly believe that a “complete” baseball team steals, bunts, and runs the bases. These aspects of the game put pressure on the defense and pitching so the intangibles figure in. For example, pitchers can not soley focus on the batter. The 3B has to balance between fielding both the hit and the bunt. It is my understanding that the great slugger Mickey Mantle had the green light to bunt whenever the 3B cheated back to far.

It has been a real pleasure to see this Ranger team start to display a complete skill set. I look forwrd to their further development.

@ mjh you’re just wack……
@evan i strongly disagree and agree with you….rose should out but i would tell him the reason is “he is a punk, i always do whatever i can to keep punks out of the hall, it’s not personal pete”

Evan: If you are eating at a Deli in New York it should be a kosher Deli. Katz’s is traif. You should go to Liebman’s KOSHER Deli in The Bronx, home of Yankee Stadium. You won’t be sorry. Head and shoulders above ANYTHING in Dallas. ANYTHING.

Zei gezunt!

maybe there’s a part time hitting instructor position in the minors……..

I suppose I don’t have much empathy for Pete Rose. He knew the rules and he broke them …and, for what? A few bucks? A few kicks? Did he think the rules didn’t apply to him? He did it for years and it wasn’t just one isolated incident. It tells me that he prioritized himself over baseball, and Pete Rose is not bigger than baseball although several folks seem to think he is.

Not having Pete Rose in the HOF sure won’t keep me awake a night, and those who have the power choose may indeed induct him … well, that’s there prerogative. I will sleep either way but I do think it cheapens the honor as he would be an exception to a long standing rule.

I loved watching Pete play, and yes, he had a HOF career. When the rules change where a person can manage an MLB team and bet on MLB games while managing a team including the team that’s paying his salary, then Pete can slide right on in there in my book.

Without Pete Rose, what would have to argue about when the Rangers are off?

Oh… wreaking havoc on the base paths? I really like our lineup w/ Borbon, Andrus, Cruz, and Kinsler. I also like starting runners w/ Blalock and MY are at bat. I thought for years that the Rangers played Earl Weaver baseball and it killed us in close games when we faced a good pitcher.

@Evan: Don’t forget to try the cupcakes. Check out Crumbs or Magnolia Bakery. It’s a meal in itself!

I’ll try to get to the game on Wednesday. I will justify giving money to the Yankees only when the Rangers in town and as long as they agree that my money goes toward MLB profit sharing.

I’ve only seen a handful of ML talent as good as Pete Rose. And all those eligible are in the Hall of Fame. If I was Commissioner for a day, I’d give a Presidential pardon and never lose a minute of sleep over the decision.

Over the last decade we’ve witnessed multiple sports punish and reinstate athletes for various crimes, many of which are much worse than anything Pete Rose has done. The last time I checked, it was also illegal to take PED’s in baseball, so it would appear MLB only cares about their pocketbook when it comes to enforcing their laws.