IM Just Saying: Eric Celeste and Zac Crain Chat Up the Western Conference

Posted on October 26th, 2009 4:16pm by Zac Crain
Filed under Basketball, Dallas Mavericks

After the jump, a short conversation between me and Eric Celeste regarding the Western Conference and the Dallas Mavericks’ place in it. It is unedited, to preserve the likely idiocy of our opinions. And also, let’s be honest: because we didn’t do it via Gmail so either one of us would have to work too hard.

2:31 PM me: i’m good whenever
2:33 PM Eric: that’s what she said
me: well played
Eric: Okay, let’s do this.
2:34 PM Want me to start?
me: go for it
2:35 PM Eric: Here we go with the West: Is the simplest preseason evaluation — that this is the Lakers’ title to lose — the most accurate?
2:37 PM me: The only other option: the Spurs weren’t the Spurs last year because Manu was gone and Duncan was hobbled. After reloading a bit over the offseason, it’s down to them and the Lakers.
I don’t necessarily agree with that.
2:42 PM Eric: Me either, for the same reason: I don’t like their wings. Specifically, Ron Artest and Richard Jefferson. They’re both overrated defensively (Artest can’t guard quick 2s or 3s anymore on the perimeter, although he does match up well with LeBron, at least physically), and for everything he brings to the table (toughness, ability to draw fouls) he takes two things off (stops ball movement, takes bad shots, isn’t a team player, doesn’t always show up with his clothes on when getting on the team bus). Jefferson was great with Kidd and average everywhere else, a la Kenyon Martin. That said, they each have a top-five player and a great coach, so they are favorites. I just don’t know that one of those teams representing the West in the Finals is a foregone conclusion.
2:45 PM Or … not
2:49 PM me: Sorry.
Eric: I thought maybe Richard Jefferson wasn’t on the Spurs.
2:51 PM me: I think the West is too deep to make such a simple statement that it HAS to be Spurs/Lakers. Utah and Denver have to be in that conversation. And the Mavs, if everything goes to plan, are right there, too. Not saying they will, but that can’t be wholly discounted. Throw in Portland and Phoenix and New Orleans, and maybe even the Clippers — I mean, it’s going to be a fight.
2:52 PM And that doesn’t even bring up my favorite non-Mavs team: the OKC Thunder.
Segue: what are we looking at from Kevin Durant this year?
2:56 PM …
 5 minutes
3:01 PM Eric: Sorry. Work takes away valuable bball discussion time. Hate that.
3:06 PM A few things: One, I agree with the Sports Guy that Denver could take a big step back this year. George Karl doesn’t handle success well — in that way he’s like Nellie. And I still think the knucklehead factor will resurface, much like it did for Golden State the year after their big run. In fact, the similarities between those two teams are so perfect, I’m copyrighting the act of comparing them. Utah I also don’t love. I think Houston is going to be better than folks think, and they’ll be the surprise team more than the Thunder, I think. That said, good heavens. Durant will be ridiculous. And his monster season — could he average 35 a game — will thankfully seal the nutjob status of that former Mavs stats guru who always sent Cuban notes about how awesome Shawn Bradley’s plus-minus numbers were.

Do you like Houston at all? And what is there to like in Utah, besides Jerry Sloan’s beaten look?

3:09 PM me: Utah is just never that bad. Even when their roster is godawful, Sloan somehow makes it happen. And with a core of Deron Williams and Paul Millsap, they’re not godawful.
3:10 PM Houston will be better than people think, because they have the kind of team that will try hard for 82 games. The playoffs? Well, I think they sneak in and give the Lakers or Spurs or whomever is on top a tough, tough series.
3:11 PM Denver will be fine. If I were to guess who takes a step back, I would agree with others and say Portland. but I think it’s a small step back and not a tumble.
3:12 PM And Durant, well, that whole Wayne Winston overrated thing is why people hate stats guys, unfortunately. I’m sorry — if you’re going to use numbers to prove Kevin Durant is a bad player, then you are dangerously insane.
3:16 PM Eric: Well, stats guys are still undervalued in basketball, I think. From what I’ve seen, many of them disagree with the emphasis Winston placed on those plus-minus numbers. But when you look at 82games.com and see that one of the worst Mavs lineups was the one with Josh Howard at the 2, I think that should give Mavs fans pause. I like this team, but we shouldn’t be surprised if he specifically struggles there, because he has in the past.

As for Portland, I can’t get behind that team. Who is their superstar? Who wills them to win? Who makes plays that make you shake your head? Who ends up on Deadspin.com with a paternity suit or a drunken pic of himself and Steve Nash? These are things every team needs.

3:19 PM Which is why I like Golden State more than other people do. Everyone predicts the turmoil will sink that team. I dunno. They could fire Nellie by Christmas and then they go off on a big eff-you run. And everyone likes the Cippers to be a better sleeper pic, because BGriff is there (and he is awesome, of course; Boomer …) and Baron Davis has slimmed down. Oh, great, so Davis is back to being the most selfish point guard on the planet? That will work well.
3:23 PM me: They COULD go on an eff you run. But really, my problem is that it is setup to be a typical Nellie team, and how many people can figure out that mess without a few trades? there are just too many ifs there for me.
3:24 PM i think this season is unpredictable until April. At best. Every team has a potential bomb that could drop or potential waiting to be tapped.
so weird
3:28 PM But I skipped Portland. Yes. This has the potential to be a re-run of that Chicago team that took Miami to the limit then buckled like a belt the next season.
3:29 PM I CAN get behind the Clips. But maybe not as much as OKC. LOVE them. LOVE the drafting of James Harden. Love it all
 5 minutes
3:34 PM Eric: I did like what I saw of Harden in the summer league. Plays like a vet already. He suffers a bit from Greg Oden Disease (looks 42 already). But, yes, if you talk about which teams in the West besides the Mavs I would sit and watch play, no matter the opponent, it goes OKC (young and talented), Lakers (waiting for Artest to disappoint/drop his pants), and the Spurs (scouting the enemy), in that order.

Speaking of, does Manu reclaim Sixth Man from JET?

me: My list is identical.
3:35 PM I don’t think JET wins it again. And I don’t think Manu does either, if people actually watch the games. But, I’m sure he will a couple of signature Manu performances, and that will overshadow everything.
3:40 PM I may foolish in saying this, but I’m just not that scared of the Spurs. They didn’t acquire Jason Kidd from 2004, so I think Richard Jefferson is an upgrade but not a difference maker. Antonio McDyess is solid, but tell me how he is a quantum leap over, say, Drew Gooden or Kurt Thomas. Dajuan Blair was a steal, but he’s still a rookie. Even LeBron struggled AT TIMES his rookie year. And TD is older and has leg problems. So does my dad.
3:43 PM Eric: They don’t scare me as a Mavs fan, simply because we seem to match up well with them. I just hope they face the Lakers in the playoff, because I think that team can beat them, and I think the Mavs match up as poorly with the Lakers as they do well with the Spurs. Or maybe Matrix and Quinton Ross change that, because they can guard Kobe a bit on the perimeter? I don’t know. Hope so. That’s the thing I’m most excited about for the Mavs is the perimeter defense they finally have. (Is that sick?)

We haven’t even talked about the Suns. Are they going to shock people? They love Channing Frye out there. Of course, why wouldn’t they? He’s a sweet-shooting roll of tissue paper.

3:46 PM me: The Suns are a mystery to me. Was last year just bad because they started the season with the wrong coach, and then Amare got hurt, and Shaq stole Nash’s reality show idea? Or do they just not have it. I’d feel more comfortable with D’Antoni running this roster. But I like my coaches with mustaches.
3:47 PM I think we can all agree that Memphis and Minnesota are at the bottom again, but we may disagree on which direction they are headed.
3:48 PM I think minny is onto something, but still a year or so away. Memphis, i think, will drive away every good young player they have, and start all over two years from now.
3:52 PM Eric: Right. Memphis is the Raiders of the NBA. Minnesota, I just don’t know what to make of that team. I don’t like their vets, I think Jonny Flynn has way too many expectations on his tiny shoulders, and I think the fan base is apathetic. Other than that, I love them.

So, best team, though, still the Lakers? Worst is Memphis? You like OKC and the Clips to surprise? That right. Gimme your 8 playoff teams.

3:54 PM me: Lakers, Spurs, Denver, Mavs, Utah, Portland, Houston, OKC.
You?
 5 minutes
3:59 PM Eric: Lakers, Spurs, Mavs, Houston, Phoenix, Denver, Portland, New Orleans
me: Yours is probably closer.
4:00 PM Eric: Yours is more daring, like you beard.
your
Shot clock got me. Coffee’s for closers.
me: GOOD CHAT
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5 Comments to “IM Just Saying: Eric Celeste and Zac Crain Chat Up the Western Conference”
  • Tim Rogers @ October 26th, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    My favorite part was where Eric pretended that work distracted him for five minutes. Solid.

  • Flask joker @ October 27th, 2009 at 10:07 am

    Boy, you two turds are complete homers. How the hell did you two morons get this gig? It must be very difficult for you two to breath being that you have the Mavs jocks firmly planted on your faces 24 hours a day.

  • Jim @ October 27th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    You guys treat Brandon Roy like the rest of the coutnry treats Dirk. Roy is Portland’s superstar and he is top 10 in the league. Give me Roy over any 2 besides Wade (and maybe over Wade if we consider injuries).

  • Zac Crain @ October 27th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

    @Flask joker: It is INCREDIBLY difficult to “breath” in the situation you described. And I am an unabashed homer, but that doesn’t mean the Mavs won’t be good. Let me guess: Spurs fan?

    @Jim: Point taken. I know it didn’t come off in the chat, but I think we both do think Brandon Roy is special. So, apologies.

  • Heard It Through the Grapevine » The Two Man Game @ October 27th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    [...] Zac Crain and Eric Celeste keep it casual while breaking down the Western Conference. [...]